Yazan Khoudsi (00:00):
Content creators are hustlers because it’s true. Some months are super easy, some months are super hard. You never, in the one month you made $20,000, maybe one month to get, make 500 bucks. You never is. You cannot predict anything. The first thing, the lgbtq plus people, they care about the safety. I want to make sure when I’m promoting the destination, it’s safe for lgbtq plus and they are welcome there.
Ross Borden (00:28):
This is creator, the podcast for Matador Network. I’m your host Ross Borden, and I believe creators are the future of all global advertising. So join me as I sit down with top creators to hear about how they got started, the challenges they’ve overcome, and the tips you need to become a full-time creator. All right, we’re back with another episode of Creator the podcast. Today I have Yan Yan. Welcome and thanks for coming on.
Yazan Khoudsi (00:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Ross Borden (00:59):
Where are you calling in from today?
Yazan Khoudsi (01:02):
So today I’m in Puerto Rico.
Ross Borden (01:05):
Oh, Puerto Rico, okay. I’ve seen a lot of content from you in Puerto Rico. Are you based there or you just love traveling there?
Yazan Khoudsi (01:12):
I’m based in Chicago, but this year it was in my head that I want to go live in Puerto Rico for a year and see how life it is and the cold in Chicago in the winter is super cold and it’s like a new experience for me, new challenge, and I wanted to learn Spanish. So many factors got together so I’m like, you know what, let me do it.
Ross Borden (01:33):
Yeah, good for you. So you’re kind of slow travel long-term down there. You have a place for a year or are you just going back again and again?
Yazan Khoudsi (01:42):
It’s funny because I got here a place for a year actually, but for a few months I was traveling nonstop. I think February, I wasn’t here at all. December, I wasn’t here at all, so I’m like, I’m just paying my rent. So now this two month is this month. The next month I decided not to travel at all. I just want to explore Puerto Rico because I’m like, I’m here and it’s super beautiful.
Ross Borden (02:05):
Yeah, it is beautiful. I love Puerto Rico every time I go there. So Yazan, you are a travel creator with, you have 3 million followers or something like that. Tell us about your creator journey.
Yazan Khoudsi (02:17):
So it started when I was in Dubai. I was a flight attendant in Dubai and I started flying in 2000, I think 12 or 13, 2012. And then I joined Instagram 2014. It was the beginning of Instagram and I was traveling and sharing my travels and I found myself, to be honest, I love social media. I was really into it and I was traveling nonstop. What made me go through the whole social media thing that some of my posts went viral. So that one made me like, oh my god, I love this. So yeah, I continued traveling, sharing my tips, growing, and I found myself obsessed, struggling and obsessed with social media too. So that’s how it,
Ross Borden (03:03):
Yeah, it’s a good combination. And you were flying with the airline, so I guess that was like free trips. Were putting you all over the map. Who were you a flight attendant for Out of Dubai,
Yazan Khoudsi (03:16):
Fly Dubai.
Ross Borden (03:17):
Okay.
Yazan Khoudsi (03:18):
Dubai. And then they were with immigrants and I stayed for eight years actually with them. My plan was only two years, but I found myself, I love traveling, so I’m like, you know what, let’s keep it for eight years.
Ross Borden (03:32):
So you were based out of Dubai then. Where are you from originally? You from the states?
Yazan Khoudsi (03:37):
No, originally I’m half Jordanian, half Syrian, but I grew up and born and raised in Syria. So I got my master degree. I studied in Syria all my life and then when I graduated I decided to go to Dubai. It was that time when Dubai is booming and everyone like, oh wow, Dubai. Sure.
Ross Borden (03:59):
Well that was a great decision. What about Jordan? Do you go back to Jordan at all? Jordan’s one of my favorite countries in the whole world.
Yazan Khoudsi (04:04):
This is the funniest story because my dad is Jordanian originally and I’ve been to over 80 countries and I never went to Jordan.
Ross Borden (04:12):
Wow,
Yazan Khoudsi (04:13):
You
Ross Borden (04:13):
Got to do that. It’s
Yazan Khoudsi (04:14):
Like the border risk area, which is so funny because we used to go to Lebanon all the time, but it’s always like when I want to go to Jordan, something happened like oh, another destination something else till now I didn’t go. So it’s a very funny story for me.
Ross Borden (04:28):
So you’ve been to 80 countries, that’s amazing. And so what now I noticed on your profile you said travel advisor. Are you also, is that just like you’re advising people with your tips? Are you a formal travel agent, travel advisor as well?
Yazan Khoudsi (04:43):
No, not with an agent, but I’m doing now some big thing like the group app. Okay. If you heard about them, they have over 35 million users now. So they always ask me, we going to plan this. They basically mostly in Japan let’s say. So they put me as one of their travel advisors to plan the itinerary for the audience, the best places, the top things to do. I do like now. Thanks TikTok. It’s like a search engine. So I do mine, I pick the top things to do. I pick everything should, and then I go by myself and see it. How is it? Is it worth it? Just like you never know. And then I made the list of the top things to do, let’s say top restaurants, top hikes, even in national parks I did with Glacier and that one of the biggest that got viral on TikTok because people when they want to go Glacier National Park, there is like 30 heavy trails and they want to know which ones like the best of the best. So yeah,
Ross Borden (05:44):
I’ve noticed in the last two years a lot of TikTok clearly sees themself as not just a social media platform but also as a search engine. Because when you go to the search, it starts suggesting searches just like Google does. Do you feel like you’re being discovered by a lot of people through TikTok and Instagram search?
Yazan Khoudsi (06:04):
This is so true because yes, even myself or my friend and once I put it on Instagram story to see people, do you search on Google nowadays more or TikTok? Everyone now I got over 80%, actually that was very high, especially the Gen Z generation, they prefer TikTok because you can see with your eye, yeah,
Ross Borden (06:24):
It’s all video results instead of blue text links.
Yazan Khoudsi (06:27):
Yes, and it’s very authentic because people, they can tell you, oh, this tool was expensive, this tool is totally worth it. And one of the crazy things of TikTok, some of my videos from two years ago now are going viral because as a search engine and the algorithm put this video as okay, let’s say as a glacier let’s say, or I did New Mexico pop things in New Mexico. So people when they search on top things to do in New Mexico, my video pop up to them and then now the algorithm is immediately recommended to other people. So yeah, I got discovered so many times by that, by the searching. Actually
Ross Borden (07:07):
I also noticed that you partner with a lot of hotels. Tell us how that works. Do you reach out to the hotels and they give you a free stay, almost like a fam trip or you have a revenue share on when you recommend a hotel? Or how does that work when you do that?
Yazan Khoudsi (07:24):
So with the hotels, mostly if I’m, let’s say if I’m traveling to New York, then I will reach out to, I will search where I’m going to stay, I’ll reach out to them and then we get into collaboration. I’m going to create for them reels. Stories highlight on my profile too, so people they can know about it. And yes, exchange for not only free stay because I feel only for free stay is not enough. I feel like I ask always for credit in the hotel, for food and beverages, breakfast also if they can in Hawaii, actually they did for me a whole activities with a mentoree and so many things. So I can, because I want to sell my audience an experience. So yes, you stay in this hotel, but this hotel also will give you some tours and stuff.
Ross Borden (08:10):
What does that outreach look like? You’re like, I want to go to Hawaii, and then you decide where you want to stay, but before you book it, you reach out. Do you reach out via Instagram or on LinkedIn or do you send them an email and then do you send a one pager about your channel and your audience or how does it work?
Yazan Khoudsi (08:30):
So this is my rule always in my life. I always like to keep everything simple because I feel like even long emails doesn’t make any, this is my theory. So I send them as very small message on Instagram dm and then I will just leave a comment because sometimes the messages go to the others. It doesn’t go directly to the inbox in the Instagram. So then hey, I just DM you just if you please can go back to me. And then I just tell them, Hey, I’m coming. Let’s say to Hawaii for a week, I would love to do collaboration with your hotel. I would create one reel, three reels, five for high resolution pictures for you. Sometimes I sell my pictures also because two hotels, they wanted gay couple for the Valentine day and for the June month and stuff. So they wanted, yeah, so me and my boyfriend, we did a professional photo session and I sell them those pictures. But usually yes, I ask for free stays experiences in exchange for the promotion.
Ross Borden (09:30):
Yeah, it’s smart. I like not just the free stays but the credit at the food and beverage and the
Yazan Khoudsi (09:35):
Experiences. The content will not be so rich. I feel I want to show the breakfast. I want to show the food because even the spa, if there is a S spa, I always ask for it. But people, they love the details, not only the things. So yeah, to answer your question, I send them at the end and then I ask them for an email so I can send my media kit, my rates if they are interested in extra services and we go from there.
Ross Borden (09:59):
Yeah, it’s smart because all the properties, they want to showcase the experiential side as well, not just the rooms or the pool or something that is kind of basic, but other things that you can do through the hotel or at the hotel.
Yazan Khoudsi (10:13):
And the value wise for them, I feel super valuable because there is so many times the rooms are anyway there is empty, especially if it’s not the season. So I feel like the value for them is huge.
Ross Borden (10:28):
The queer traveler is a huge segment for travel in general for every, we talked to airlines, destinations, hotels. Tell us about L-G-B-T-Q travel as a specific niche that obviously people approach you for. How has that been for you and what should brands think about in terms of working with members of the LGBTQ plus community when it comes to travel?
Yazan Khoudsi (10:59):
Sure. Actually, I was in an exhibition last year in LA about the travel industry for the LGBTQ plus. It was like over a hundred tourism boards, people from the Asian Airlines and it was amazing. And the study showed that the first thing that lgbtq plus people, they care about the safety because they want to see if this place is safe to go or no, am I welcome as a, can we hold hands, is it okay or no, this is the number one thing. So that’s how I start everything because I want to make sure when I’m promoting the destination, it’s safe for lgbtq plus. And they are welcome there because one time, one tourism, they asked me to do collaboration, but they said just keep it in a low key and not super gay. But I’m like, how you want me to promote for my audience? You know what a
Ross Borden (11:52):
Ridiculous request to thank
Yazan Khoudsi (11:54):
You coming to me. They wanted to create content but they don’t want it to be as gay. But I’m like, then you’re having the wrong content creator because that’s not authentic at all for me. So we didn’t agree.
Ross Borden (12:08):
Yeah. Was that a hotel or a destination? That was funny because it was a state in
Yazan Khoudsi (12:14):
The US.
Ross Borden (12:15):
Really?
Yazan Khoudsi (12:17):
That’s pretty embarrassing. They didn’t want me to be as gay or bubbly in a way. They wanted to keep it conservative, which I understand their vision, but why reaching out to me then reach out to maybe families another, you know what I mean? There is so many different kind of creators, but they want my audience and they want not showing
Ross Borden (12:37):
What they just want a little gay but not too gay.
Yazan Khoudsi (12:40):
That’s a pretty, I know how that happened. No, it doesn’t work like that. So yeah, so that’s the number one. I want to show them which destinations they welcome in things to do because they care about it, like gay things to do many times.
Ross Borden (12:56):
What has been the other side of the spectrum? What are some destinations or brands who really understood the gay community and in terms of working with you on content production or something like that?
Yazan Khoudsi (13:09):
No is, I did so many with tourism. It’s funny because Puerto Rico, one of the, so when I moved to Puerto Rico I did four times collaboration with the Discover Puerto Rico and that’s how I decided to move because I had fall in love with the island when I was promoting here. The gay things to do. So many people they mistake in Puerto Rico with Jamaica because Jamaica, they don’t welcome gays and there is nothing but Puerto Rico. There is gay clubs, gay hotels, gay prides in so many things, gays to do. But people they didn’t know, they didn’t think it’s safe even. So that was one of the places I was very happy to highlight that no hang, it’s safe here. It’s super welcoming, it’s super gay friendly. That’s why at the end I moved here.
Ross Borden (13:56):
Yeah, that’s interesting. You’re helping people make that distinction and clear up the misconception that Puerto Rico is not friendly to gay travelers. I didn’t know that about Jamaica actually. You just taught me something. So would you feel Jamaica’s on a list of places that you’d feel unsafe to travel to?
Yazan Khoudsi (14:15):
Yeah, because they don’t welcome gays and I heard it’s very homophobic and they can harm queer people if they go. And I heard very bad stories about it. So I’m like, the world is so huge, so I’m going to go to a place where I’m not going to feel safe. And as I said in the beginning, even for myself, number one thing before I traveled anywhere, the safety.
Ross Borden (14:39):
Sure and your followers, that’s the first thing they want to know as well.
Yazan Khoudsi (14:44):
Yeah, like the safety, how many things to do. Yes, there is some places, it’s funny because gay friendly, but they don’t have a lot of gay things to do. It’s like in the US Virgin Island, it’s super gay friendly, but there is nothing gay in specific. There
Ross Borden (15:01):
Are no gay clubs or
Yazan Khoudsi (15:03):
Bars or something
Ross Borden (15:03):
Like that.
Yazan Khoudsi (15:03):
No, but it’s super gay friendly, super safe and it’s perfect. So yeah, also it’s one of the things like even if there is not gay things to do, but at least gay friendly,
Ross Borden (15:13):
What would you say are the top three or five destinations that are the best places for gay and queer travelers to visit?
Yazan Khoudsi (15:22):
I think Spain in Europe in general, all but Spain because oh my god, super friendly in the US also like San Francisco new or the big city Miami now Florida by the way. They’re becoming a little bit very moved. I heard the flag or the link for the LGBT from the,
Ross Borden (15:46):
Oh yeah, I think they removed the entire section or they removed in the menu item. So there’s no lgbtq plus area area on their website.
Yazan Khoudsi (15:56):
I went there three years ago, we had amazing time. They have a drag show by the South Beach. It’s amazing. They have gloves, the pride. But now I hear yes, there is still good places to do, but I’m still the mayor. I dunno who’s responsible for this. The whole state is becoming not super friendly too.
Ross Borden (16:18):
Yeah, that’s a shame. All politics likely. And so let’s talk about the business of being a creator. So you started as a flight attendant, you were creating content in this sort of infancy of social media and especially vertical video, sharing your tips as you traveled. You get these free stays and sometimes sell content when you reach out to destinations. What are the other ways that you, are you a full-time creator right now? This is your full career, right? Yeah.
Yazan Khoudsi (16:49):
Yes.
Ross Borden (16:50):
So tell us about how you’ve made a full living with this above and beyond the integrations and getting free trips. What’s really moving the needle for you in terms of earning money and making this a career?
Yazan Khoudsi (17:06):
Sure. Which is funny speaking about this, my boyfriend always say that content creators are hustlers because it’s true. Sometimes it’s funny, some months are super easy, some months are super hard, you never know. And you should put this in your mind that maybe let’s say as I’m just giving an example, one month you made $20,000 maybe one month to get make 500 bucks. You never cannot predict anything. This is the first rule. And I learned on the way because some month I didn’t do any good money wise. I was sad because I’m putting the effort. But to answer your questions first, brand work partnerships and on Instagram I get the best ones. So it’s both. They reach out to me by dm, they reach out to me by email and also I reach out to them. So let’s say I see you in the travel sector, let’s say booking.com. I know they are interested to promote themselves so I can reach out to them. I look up for their emails and stuff. So yeah, I send them my meeting kit, I pitch myself to them. Let’s say also on TikTok, let’s say I get also same thing like branded partnerships. They also pay for the views. And now there is something so funny because Facebook is paying a lot of money for their views.
Ross Borden (18:34):
They’ve switched on monetization. So if you’re generating enough views, you get paid by Facebook.
Yazan Khoudsi (18:40):
So this is the thing, my TikTok account got 1 million because I started in the quarantine and I was doing just the funny Vegas because that’s my other personality and I couldn’t travel anywhere. So I was like, you know what, just the good thing about you can be yourself very authentic in a fun way, you don’t care even if video didn’t perform well, it’s just you. So I grew up very fast and so I start posting those, the relatable, let’s say comedy, funny videos on Facebook. And some of them got crazy viral. They got 30 million, 20 million views and they’re paying very good actually. So I wasn’t in shock that Facebook is paying a lot, even more than TikTok.
Ross Borden (19:23):
Yeah, I’m always blown away. We look at the numbers at Matador of how many millions of video views we’re doing across TikTok, Instagram, and I’m always amazed the Facebook numbers are still, it’s like hundreds of millions of views a year that we’re doing just on Facebook, half a billion views in a year on Facebook. And you don’t think of Facebook as the leading video platform. It’s like all the attention’s on TikTok and Instagram, but Facebook’s still driving a lot of video views.
Yazan Khoudsi (19:52):
I think they want to keep the platform alive.
Ross Borden (19:56):
That’s
Yazan Khoudsi (19:56):
Why they’re paying good money for the creators because they want them to keep posting. They don’t want the platform to die and
Ross Borden (20:03):
It’s video. You got to have video if you’re not going to die. So that’s the
Yazan Khoudsi (20:06):
Focus. Exactly. So I think it’s working because honestly for me, even when I post on TikTok, I’m interested more to post that TikTok on Facebook because I know I’m going to get good money from the contents and they pay good actually. So that’s one of good how I get my source of money also from tourism boards. So I did with so many tourism boards and they always have good budgets.
Ross Borden (20:33):
You have 2.2 million on Instagram and a million on TikTok. You mentioned earlier that you feel like TikTok is just a place where you can be yourself and take risks and post whatever, but I’m sure some of those little risks or fun videos that you create have gone viral and added to your following. Why do you think that is different about TikTok or why do you feel that way about TikTok? That it’s a place you can take risks
Yazan Khoudsi (21:02):
Because sometimes let’s say you can be yourself for real and that will attract people. So I’m going to give you a very small example. One of the videos I did Doritos with my boyfriend about the challenge. It was very funny challenge. It reached 55 million views. I did not expect it at all. But because people, they like to see those things on Instagram, I will not post that video because Instagram is a bit of perfection. But TikTok, you can be more fun, more yourself and people. They love that. And I feel now it’s going there. All the platform. Even Instagram now is getting a little bit relaxed more than before. So with TikTok you can be yourself and people, they love authentic things and and sometimes TikTok, I’m telling you, sometimes the videos goes like crazy viral, which is amazing.
Ross Borden (21:55):
Yeah, you’ve been a creator for a long time. Have there been any low points in your career as a creator when you were discouraged or bummed about your prospects?
Yazan Khoudsi (22:08):
So many times, because I think in social media we all have this period when you compare yourself to others. And that’s how I learned. I should not ever do that because there is always someone doing better than you, but you never know how long they’ve been doing it for or what happened. Maybe they’re putting so much effort or so many things behind it. So I learned to compare myself to myself the year before and the year before. That’s it. And that’s how I did not feel any more destroyed.
Ross Borden (22:39):
Yeah, I like that. Just only looking at where you were the year before and the year
Yazan Khoudsi (22:43):
Before that. Yeah, because even I know if someone has 1 million, 100 million followers will look at someone past 200 million followers. You know what I mean? So this you’ll never be satisfied. So I learned that. No, just focus on myself and yes.
Ross Borden (22:57):
So Yazan, I ask a question to everyone who comes on the show. You’ve been to what, 80 countries I think?
Yazan Khoudsi (23:04):
Yes.
Ross Borden (23:05):
So this is going to be hard for you because the more you travel, the more places you’ve been, the harder this question is, if your passport only worked in three countries for the rest of your life, you could only live travel or visit three countries, what would those countries be?
Yazan Khoudsi (23:23):
In Indonesia, because I love Bali. I’ve been to Bali four times and it’s a huge actually. So there is so many. If you want to party, there is amazing clubs. If the nature, the food, the people, I feel Bali is perfect. Maybe I’m too cliche right now, but
Ross Borden (23:43):
No, Bali is amazing. Who doesn’t like Bali?
Yazan Khoudsi (23:46):
Right? It’s amazing. And the whole Indonesia in general, there is a lot to do. So I would choose Bali, I would choose the USA again because it’s huge. So there is, as I’m doing now, one of my goals to do all the national parks. So if I’m the rest of my life, USA is super huge. So there is a lot to do and it’s really beautiful. We have been in the US amazing national parks, the glacier, I was amazed. Diane is so beautiful. Number three country, that’s hard.
Ross Borden (24:21):
Number three is always the hardest. You got Indonesia and the us.
Yazan Khoudsi (24:27):
I think Japan, I was the last year.
Ross Borden (24:29):
Yeah, great
Yazan Khoudsi (24:30):
Answer. And it’s always impressive and very developed. People are so sweet. The food is so good. So also I feel like I wouldn’t mind live there for years and years and years.
Ross Borden (24:42):
Yeah. Awesome. Alright, Japan, US and Indonesia. Well, Yan, we’ve really enjoyed having you on the show. For the folks who don’t know your channels or already follow you, where can we find you online?
Yazan Khoudsi (24:56):
These are travel on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook
Ross Borden (25:01):
Zo Travel. All right, Yazan, thanks so much for joining and thanks for coming on the show.
Yazan Khoudsi (25:07):
Thank you for having me. Thank you so
Ross Borden (25:09):
Much, creator. The podcast is produced by Matador Network. We are leading global travel publisher focused on travel and adventure. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe. Every week I interview a new top creator. New episodes are released every Tuesday on YouTube, apple podcasts, Spotify and everywhere podcasts are found. Thanks for listening.