Transcript:

Elona Karafin (00:00):

My first international flight was when I was five years old.

Ross Borden (00:03):

Wow. That’s the earliest I’ve ever heard of anyone flying solo. Certainly some of the places that you’ve been have been war torn countries. Why have those been target countries for you?

Elona Karafin (00:15):

Everything that I knew about the Middle East was just fundamentally wrong. My intention when I travel is to show the world that the majority of these countries are these types of people that are good, that many of them are involved in conflicts that they did not choose. When they have their own stories and they don’t always want to be just associated with war and their governments, it started with curiosity, but then it almost becomes like an addiction.

Ross Borden (00:42):

This is creator, the podcast for Matador Network. I’m your host, Ross Borden, and I believe creators are the future of all global advertising. So join me as I sit down with top creators to hear about how they got started, the challenges they’ve overcome, and the tips you need to become a full-time creator. Alright, welcome back to Creator the podcast. Today we have a very exciting guest talking about some really interesting places in the world. Alona, welcome to Creator.

Elona Karafin (01:13):

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Ross Borden (01:15):

So Alona, for those who have not followed your content or not aware of your pages, give us a little background. I think you were born in Ukraine, right? And then moved to the States. Start there. We want to get the speed version of your history and then how you started creating content, and we can go from there.

Elona Karafin (01:37):

Cool. I’ll try to speed through it. Yes. I was born in Ukraine. I left when I was three, and I’m a first generation immigrant. My parents and I, my parents were super young. I was three years old. They had maybe $500 in their pocket when they moved to America to start a new life. I grew up in New York my whole life, but I think I have a little bit of Eastern European culture and values. But then I’m also a very, very proud New Yorker. I grew up in the States. I had open heart surgery when I was four, and then shortly after that I was diagnosed with cancer. And I’m a childhood cancer survivor. I was treated here in New York for almost two years. My first international flight, I guess I should have started with that was when I was five years old. I flew back to Ukraine to visit my grandparents for the summer holidays. Flew by myself, my parents handed me off to the cabin crew and then I sat through the whole 10, 10 and a half hour flight.

Ross Borden (02:42):

You were, wow, that’s early. I’ve heard of anyone flying

Elona Karafin (02:46):

Solo. You’d be surprised, but it’s pretty normal actually. A lot of the immigrant kids would go back to visit grandparents and there would be a whole group of us and we would just kind of sit and the cabin crew would check in on us once in a while and then after 10 hours they’d walk us out and our grandparents would meet us on the other side. And I was doing that every year from five to 10 years old when I was diagnosed. So that was my first really introduction to solo travel. I think in retrospect now looking back at it, pretty much after my diagnosis, I had a really normal life. Went to school, went to college, studied business, worked in finance for about four years after I graduated, and my former boss convinced me to take a trip because I was burning out at a very young age and I didn’t have to. So he said, you have the time off. I’m very chill. Take the time off, go somewhere. So I did. I went to Abu Dhabi. That was my first kind of international quote, national exotic trip that changed it all. And ever since that trip, I really started maximizing my time off, taking one day off, combining it with a weekend and traveling anywhere in the world, wherever the flight was the cheapest, I would just pick up and go and

Ross Borden (04:11):

Love that.

Elona Karafin (04:12):

Yeah, it was Skyscanner. Skyscanner has the everywhere tool where you could just put it in and Oh, Belize is $200 done. I’m going to go there for the weekend. And I started posting my itineraries online generally because many people were asking me questions and questioning how I could go somewhere for a short period of time. How could you go to Paris for three days? You’re not going to see anything. And I’m like, you can. There’s a difference between vacation and travel. And what I’m doing is traveling, not vacationing, posted my itineraries online. About a year later, I got an email from Business Insider asking if they could interview me because I was young. My demographic, their demographic was all young professionals who have the finances to travel but don’t have the time to travel. And I was doing it. The interviewed me, didn’t think anything of it. That interview went viral. It got reposted to Forbes and Travel and Leisure and all these really big platforms. And that’s when my blog following started to pick up. Then I started dabbling into Instagram.

Ross Borden (05:23):

What year was the Business Insider post?

Elona Karafin (05:26):

2017. 17 or 16. 16 or 17. Yeah, it was one of those. And I kept working. I was still in finance at that point. I was already saving money. I was a little bit involved in crypto, and basically I sold two Bitcoins and resigned from my finance job because I had that buffer. And I said, okay, in six months, if nothing comes out of this, I could always go back to finance, but at least why I’m young. I was like 23, why not just do it? So the rest is history, basically.

Ross Borden (06:05):

We hear that a lot from creators who decide to go full time, like worst case scenario, it doesn’t work out. And I go back to working a nine to five. So lots to unpack there. You have really an incredible story. So first, this is not a political podcast, but when I meet people from Ukraine, I always want to ask, what are your thoughts on the war? Give us your unfiltered point of view as someone who didn’t grow up there but is from there. And I don’t know if you still have family in the country, but I love your perspective.

Elona Karafin (06:44):

Disappointing, unfortunate, heartbreaking. I travel to many war ridden countries and I meet with so many people and refugees from these countries. And now having that direct tie to my own motherland has been a lot. It’s given me a lot to grapple with emotionally. And I’ve been working on myself and my self-development for many years and this was really something that I had to work on more because it’s unexplainable. Most of my best friends are still in Ukraine. I do have family, extended family. As soon as the war started, I went maybe three weeks after the war started to bring aid in. One thing that I’ll say is our people are very resilient. I know that you’ll hear the word resilience in many warban countries, but my best friend will go to a yoga class and they’ll be holding their down dog pause while the sirens are going off and they’re like, ah, it’s okay. We have 30 seconds left of Downdog and then 30 seconds crazy so we could run to the bomb shelter or to the hallway. So as long as they’re resilient, then I have to also be resilient. I think right now we’re still hopeful, but we’re also more realistic in what the future might hold. Everyone’s really tired, we’re tired, we’re helpless, but just hoping that it ends soon because people are suffering, people are really suffering. And it’s three years. It’s too

Ross Borden (08:18):

Long. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it is too long and hope for some kind of peaceful end in the near future. I mean, you are definitely an adventurous travel at Matador. Our tagline is travel fearlessly, and we believe that a lot of people think the world is this profoundly dangerous place and everyone’s out to get you. And that hasn’t been my experience. Certainly I found that very, very few places that I’ve traveled and I’ve traveled all over the developing world have actually been legitimately dangerous. Most places I found are extremely safe and the vast majority of people are good people and well-intentioned. But certainly some of the places that you’ve been and some of your favorite places which we’ll get into at the end of the podcast have been developing countries, war torn countries. Why have those been target countries for you? I imagine it’s got to be more than just like that was the cheapest flight when you were getting started, but your history of going to some of these more adventurous, more developing and countries in which there have been conflicts, has raised probably eyebrows amongst your friends and family and followers.

(09:36):

Tell us about some of those experiences.

Elona Karafin (09:39):

That’s a really good question because that wasn’t really ever the goal. I didn’t intentionally set out to go to all of these countries and tell the story. I would say the start of it was probably the trip to Abu Dhabi, a very developed city in a very developed country. But when I went there in 2015 for the first time, and everything that I knew about the Middle East up until that point was dangerous, unsafe for a woman. People are disrespectful to women, war zone, all of these taglines that are still very much associated with the region. And I saw the Grand Mosque on the travel channel and I was like, I really just want to go there and I’m going to go and see for myself. And I came and I realized that everything that I thought about UAE was just fundamentally wrong. And it really made me question, how many other things am I listening to from family, from friends, from the news, from just outsiders and believing it and not finding out for myself.

(10:48):

So that trip was really pivotal for me to start moving around the Middle East a little bit more and discovering other parts of the Middle East and seeing for myself what the region is about. And then that kind of brought me into more Muslim majority countries. I went to Afghanistan, I went to Iraq. Even though it’s been way post-war in Iraq, people that have been through absolute hell and back for generations in Afghanistan, it’s like multiple generations that know nothing but war and they end up being some of the kindest and most hospitable and giving people that I’ve ever met. And then it started with curiosity, but then it almost becomes like an addiction, just like the self-development journey is a forever journey. This journey of finding out more or finding more human connection and realizing I believe that humans are inherently good and it doesn’t matter what country that they’re in.

(11:49):

And that’s always my intention when I travel, is to seek out all these people that are good and to show the world that that’s the majority of these countries are these types of people that many of them are involved in conflicts that they did not choose. And they have so much to give and they have their own stories and they don’t always want to be just associated with war and their governments and all of that. So I would say it started with curiosity and then I started ticking off many of the countries realizing that man, in every country, the humans are amazing. There’s so much culture, there’s a wealth of history, there are beautiful places to see. And then it’s like an addiction. Where am I going to go next? Okay, let’s go to it all connects, let’s go to Syria next. Let’s go to Yemen next and then Africa, et cetera, et cetera.

Ross Borden (12:39):

I want to back up for a minute. You said something that I think is really important, and I’ve tried to pinpoint why this is, but why was your perception of these places, let’s take the Middle East for example. The perception was it was dangerous. The perception was it was people are disrespectful to women, dangerous for women travelers. Why is that? Why is our perception of the Middle East or of developing nations all over the world completely different from the reality that you and I have experienced when traveling these places? Why do you think that is? Do you think it’s malicious on purpose that the media is portraying them in a certain way or do you think it’s just a byproduct of the American or western mindset? What do you think that is?

Elona Karafin (13:24):

Probably a little bit of both. I don’t want to believe that there is an agenda that’s spanning over decades to make certain people from certain regions look a certain way in order for us to justify what we do politically or in war in different places. I don’t want to believe that, but I could definitely see that being an option if we keep for a decade or two decades after September 11th, showing people from one region in one way after two decades, most people here are going to believe it. That’s just the reality. That’s how I am friends or friends acquainted with so many cultured and traveled people who will flat out say, I’m never going to go to the Middle East. Middle East is a big place. Okay, there’s like GC, C, there’s a very

Ross Borden (14:16):

Developed there, a lot of super safe places

Elona Karafin (14:19):

In the Middle East, the safest in the world. And they’ll say, no, no, no, I don’t agree with their values. I don’t agree with their morals. I don’t agree with their religion. And I realize how one misinformed people are. And two, I don’t necessarily blame people for not going out of their way to research things that they don’t care about. You’re going to see something in the news, you’re going to see it one time, five times, 10 times, it becomes a part of your mentality. Why would you go out of your way to prove to yourself that what you know is wrong? You know what I mean?

Ross Borden (14:51):

Totally. And that’s a good point. And I think the news focuses on conflict, negativity, violence in general. When you watching the international news, it’s not typically about uplifting stories of places where great things are happening. There are typically focused on hardcore journalism and reporting of the one part of India where there’s been some sort of violence or the one war breaking out in a certain corner of a certain country. And then that becomes the perception for that entire country. And then on the other side, this is another thing I’ve wondered about myself. I’ve found the same thing. I’ve found that the most impoverished places that I’ve been or places where there was violence or a war or history of war are some of the most trusting, hospitable, warmest people who in your sort of media mindset that we are all battling in living in the western world.

(15:55):

You’re like, these people are out to get me, or they’re going to be unfriendly, or they’re going to be dangerous or threatening. And it’s completely the opposite. They’re like the most welcoming. And in my experience, I feel like that’s been because they are aware of the stigma or the misconception of visitors, and they’re even like Columbia, which is a place that’s a huge travel destination now. I started going there 25 years ago when the mindset was like, oh, it’s a war, it’s a drug war and it’s a super dangerous place. And people really went out of their way to be like, first of all, what are you gringos doing here? And how can I help? Are you finding everything okay? Can I give you directions? We’re so happy you’re here. And do you think that’s it, that people are going out of their way to reset the mindset because they know that those negative associations exist

Elona Karafin (16:50):

Going out of their way, maybe a stretch, but you are 100% right? There are so many people that I’ve met that are like, you guys think we’re terrorists, but look, we’re here. Come in, have some tea. And they know that there’s a stigma, especially with Americans. And I never hide that I’m American in any of these countries, like in n Iraq and Syria. I mean, I answer as an American, I’ll proudly say that I’m an American.

Ross Borden (17:17):

I never understood the sowing the Canadian flag on your backpack. I’ve always been proud

Elona Karafin (17:23):

American. But see, again, this is a preconceived kind of notion that people have in their minds and

Ross Borden (17:29):

Out of fear, right out of fear that did it as a precaution. Yeah,

Elona Karafin (17:32):

Yeah. I do find that, that people want to show how kind they are so that we could come home and tell our friends and family that these are some of the kindest and most hospitable people in the world that have been through the worst of the worst.

Ross Borden (17:48):

Yeah. When were you in Syria? I caught a couple videos from Syria. When were you there?

Elona Karafin (17:54):

Three weeks ago.

Ross Borden (17:55):

Three weeks ago,

Elona Karafin (17:56):

Right before, yeah, the fall of Asad. Now a month ago, sorry. But yeah, two weeks before the fall of Assad.

Ross Borden (18:03):

Wow. So what was that like? I just on a personal level, I’m interested in that trip for you. Why did you decide to go, where were you in the country and what was the experience like?

Elona Karafin (18:18):

Syria was just another country that I was very curious about. I have quite a few Syrian American friends, just again, traveling around the Middle East. Syria was just the next kind of step in the lavant. And I know someone that’s been to Syria, so I took his recommendation for our local guide, Ahmad, who is now a very good friend of ours, young guy, maybe a year older or two years older than me, grew up in Aleppo through the peak of the war. He was a teenager, like a young adult when the war started. So his pivotal years, he lived through just heavy bombardment and we traveled pretty much everywhere in Syria that you’re allowed to go. There are some, well, not now, but when we were there, there were some parts up north, northeast, northwest that you couldn’t go to, but everywhere else you cancel. 70% of the country we’ve done and fell in love. Same reason. People are amazing, so much history, so much untouched history or historical places that have been destroyed or semi destroyed by isis, which in my opinion almost becomes the new modern history of what these people have done to historic sites. So we decided, my partner and I to bring a group, we do group trips,

Ross Borden (19:36):

Bringing

Elona Karafin (19:36):

Westerners to

(19:39):

These misunderstood countries, brought a group there. And just from day one, seeing that secondhand, oh my God, there’s actually life here. People are now getting bombed every day and they’re super nice to us. Seeing that firsthand brings me so much excitement. And we had an amazing trip. Everything was smooth and our guide was super happy. Every trip for our guide sets him up for a year of life, probably just from what he gets, because in Syria, the situation is quite dire economically. And then two weeks later we get a text in our group chat and he’s like, Aleppo is under rebel control. I can’t go home. And Russia was bombing the rebels at the time in the very beginning. And we were so stressed

Ross Borden (20:27):

For the safety of your friend,

Elona Karafin (20:29):

For the safety of my friend and so many new friends that we made, and we were just there. So that was definitely a trailing thought in the back of our heads. And then we were in Antarctica with no service, and then when we got service, Damascus was already taken. Well, Basra was taken down south, and then they took Damascus and our guide rides were free, serious free. And he was live in the parades outside, and it was the craziest emotional roller coaster within a few day period that I’ve experienced second

Ross Borden (21:01):

Half. So for your friend and the people that you’ve met, the new friends from your trip, do you think pretty much across the board, this is something they’re celebrating and welcoming,

Elona Karafin (21:11):

They’re celebrating? I don’t know about welcoming. I think welcoming is, it’s not the right term. They are celebrating the fall of their regime, but then now there’s the state of limbo. What’s next? Is it actually going to be better? Is it going to be marginally better? But I think now the heightened excitement of just the regime falling is keeping everyone happy. But then the next six months are going to be very telling as to what the future holds

Ross Borden (21:42):

For those who want to visit Syria. What was it like going around the country? I saw you with a money counter, huge stacks of bills just to buy a couple coffees and some of your videos. And because of the hyperinflation, all the embargoes and stuff that have been inflicted on the financial system there, was it easy to move around the country? Very difficult. I mean, I think most people would say, I want to go with someone like you or your friend who’s a guide and a local there. But what was it like getting around the country?

Elona Karafin (22:16):

Super easy. You need a local guide, or at least I’m only talking pre-fall of the regime. So things might have changed categorically already, pre regime or during the regime, you needed a local guide to travel around Syria. So you can’t just come in as a solo traveler. The guide puts together the visa application for you. Also, super easy. Couple of weeks, the paperwork’s done. You come into Syria, it’s a visa. On arrival, they stamp your passport. And with the guide, it’s like free sailing. I mean, there are, like I said, a couple of areas in the country that were closed off because they were either under rebel control or Kurdish control, so you couldn’t go. But everywhere else, checkpoints, safe, military, everywhere. People are very nice. I think tourists in general are just a gray area in most of these countries. But yeah, it was very easy. The money is just a interesting part of the story. But again, after day one, you get used to it and you’re like, okay, I’m not culture shocked anymore.

Ross Borden (23:22):

Yeah, you’re like, lunch is half a million who has some

Elona Karafin (23:24):

Meals. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s crazy because the Syrians, they don’t even count. They could just look at a stack and be like, yeah, that looks about right.

Ross Borden (23:32):

That’s about right this way. Iss enough.

Elona Karafin (23:35):

Yeah,

Ross Borden (23:36):

That’s crazy. So tell me about, I’m deeply, as you can tell, deeply interested in sort of the geopolitical outlook from your travels. I also want to hear about your career as a creator. And you touched on something that I want to learn more about. I know some creators have done quite well with this. So you and your partner, who’s also a travel creator, we’ll get to that in a minute. You guys run your own trips. Tell me where you go, where you take people, sizes of the groups, how you got started. Give me the full rundown of that as sort of a business.

Elona Karafin (24:10):

Sure. It’s a relatively small part of the business to be honest. We do trips to Iraq and to Syria, and potentially we’ll expand to a couple of more places that we have on the horizon. We came to Iraq, we fell in love with the country, also fell in love with our guide, who’s our close friend, Iraq, even more so than Syria. They’ve experienced a really long period of peace, but people don’t seem to know that worldwide because just the word Iraq is still very much associated with war and the war with America. But I, Iraq has been quiet for decades, really, or over a decade. And we came there, fell in love with the country and said, we have to bring people here. We have to show people that everything that they know about this country is not necessarily incorrect, but it’s not the full picture. Let’s put it like that. So we decided to launch a group trip. It sold out within 24 hours. Mostly Americans, a few Europeans as well. So Westerners in general. So we did a pilot trip, went oc, it was phenomenal trip, just excellent from start to finish. Could not have asked for a better group. As you can imagine, the people that sign up for this trip are well traveled,

Ross Borden (25:29):

A

Elona Karafin (25:29):

Little more adventurous, a little more well traveled, probably more not just like, I’ve been to Paris once and now I want to go to Baghdad. So the pilot went well. So we launched another one, sold out within 24 hours. The second trip went amazing, and then we went to Syria and just started doing the same thing. It’s an incredibly fulfilling journey for us to get 12 to 15 people to join us and then almost become advocates for the region to change their minds. And that’s why we keep doing it at this point. It is great that it’s a revenue stream in the general content creation business, but it’s really the fulfillment that we get from these trips that make them worthwhile. And that’s why we keep doing them. We don’t do that many, maybe two to three per year so far, but if the opportunity presents itself, we’re just going to keep doing more.

Ross Borden (26:23):

And then you said it was a small piece of the overall business as a creator, what is the rest of that for you?

Elona Karafin (26:29):

Number one is, is

Ross Borden (26:30):

It brand partnerships?

Elona Karafin (26:32):

Yeah, brand deals are still number one. Consulting would probably be number two. I have a consulting firm and we consult with lots of really big brands. We help them create social media marketing campaigns and the analytics of these campaigns and measuring ROI and basically bridging the gap between influencers and brands and brands and influencers, UGC content and production. My partner does more of that, but I sometimes hop on those trips as well. We have a separate account called Japan, like a local that we’re building an app for right now. I actually have not said that publicly before, so my first time saying it publicly, but

Ross Borden (27:14):

We have that, we can bleep it out or we can help it get some early traction.

Elona Karafin (27:19):

Still we’re building, but it’s going to launch in probably early Q2 of next year. So we sell guides for Japan, and that’s done very well. So now we’re pivoting into moving out of social media a little bit and having something tangible that’s not directly tied to any platform.

Ross Borden (27:41):

These are print guides or what it

Elona Karafin (27:42):

Is? No, they’re PDF now pdf, and it’s going to turn into an app. I think the brand space is amazing, massive revenue driver for myself or most of my creator friends that do well for themselves in the industry. But I think the next step for everyone should be a product, a tangible product, an e product, the way to diversify out of the social media channels.

Ross Borden (28:11):

And so it’s called Japan, like a local,

Elona Karafin (28:13):

Japan like a local, Japan like a local.

Ross Borden (28:16):

So you have an Instagram account already presumably launched, and then you’re coming with more full on guides?

Elona Karafin (28:23):

Yes,

Ross Borden (28:24):

Correct. Awesome. And I assume you picked Japan because you spend a lot of time in Tokyo. Tell us about that. You split time between Dubai, New York and Tokyo. That sounds incredible. It also sounds exhausting and expensive. So what led you to that place? I used to split time between SF and New York and everyone’s like, that’s the dream. And I was like, no, it’s actually a nightmare. It’s a lot of flying. It’s expensive. So you’re doing that for three major cities across the world? Yeah. Why and how is that working out and how do you guys manage that? Is it seasonal?

Elona Karafin (29:02):

It’s definitely seasonal. We’re very, very, very lucky. So my partners have Japanese, he’s have Japanese have French. His family has a home in Japan, and that’s where we stay when we’re in Tokyo. We love Japan. And Japan is such a desirable place, which is what made it perfect for the guides and the business side of things, in addition to just loving the country and traveling around Japan is actually quite affordable if you’re coming with a strong currency. So Japan quickly became one of our bases. Middle East, we love Dubai, we love the Middle East. There’s a ton of business opportunity in the region between UAE and Saudi Arabia and Qatar. So we always wanted to spend some time in Dubai. So we spend the winter there or three to four months in the winter escaping the cold. And then New York is home. New York is where we have a permanent home. My family’s here, so New York will always be a big part of our lives as far as we can see right now. We’re going to be moving around the three, but who knows what the future will hold.

Ross Borden (30:14):

That’s a great mix. I got to say just the food alone in those cities is pretty epic throughout

Elona Karafin (30:20):

Fabulous cities. I mean, it is a big blessing to have been raised in New York and also to have a US based business because it really just makes it so much easier to not just travel around the world, but also to spend a significant amount of time in countries that have weaker currencies. For example.

Ross Borden (30:40):

I was actually going to ask you where your business structures are based. They’re based in the us,

Elona Karafin (30:45):

Us, and the consulting firm is in Dubai.

Ross Borden (30:48):

Okay, nice. That’s smart. And the consulting, is that for brands across GCC in general or mostly travel brands and destinations, where have you guys found the most success?

Elona Karafin (31:01):

Yes, my partner is Kuwaiti. So we target brands to do marketing campaigns for the GCC market. So we work with bigger brands that have a presence in the GCC or that want to enter the GC market. So a good example is we’re working with a property in Zambia to do a production shoot for them for social media, but to try to attract the GCC audience and the GC audience is very particular. They operate on a basis of trust. They need to see specific types of people in the advertising specific types of content that would be good for them. And this is kind of the gap that we bridge.

Ross Borden (31:42):

That’s really interesting. I’m glad I asked because I was thinking you’re consulting for destinations in the GCC to bring Americans and other westerners, but in fact, it’s kind of the opposite, both

Elona Karafin (31:54):

You’re

Ross Borden (31:55):

Focused on marketing to the market of GCC.

Elona Karafin (31:57):

Yes, that’s the main focus. But usually once we get to know the brands better and they find out that, oh, I’m American with a big American audience, then they’re always curious to try to tap into the US space. So it really depends on the client, but we mostly tailor to the GCC market.

Ross Borden (32:15):

That’s awesome. So it sounds like you clearly have multiple streams of revenue in your business as a creator. You’ve got consulting, you’ve got the brand deals, which you said is still number one. You’ve got the trips, which is small drop in the bucket, but what sounds like one of your biggest passions, and you told us that you jumped to full-time basically as soon as you started, you sold a couple Bitcoin and then that was your leap, the great leap of faith to become a full-time creator. How has it gone? It is just up into the right in terms of revenue since then, and you’ve launched all these businesses and because I always ask creators because people are interested in this, so whatever you’re willing to share, but what has been your biggest month or your biggest brand deal or something that was really meaningful in your business in the last couple years?

Elona Karafin (33:08):

Yeah, sure. Well, I just want to preface by saying that back then when I resigned, this was not a space, this was not a job. This was not something that brought revenue back then A

Ross Borden (33:23):

Career path.

Elona Karafin (33:24):

Yeah, exactly. It was not a career path. Even when I was leaving my job, I wasn’t leaving thinking, okay, I’m going to start making money now. Because what I was making from brand deals was so negligible at the time. But I do have to say that the trips were amazing. So back then I was really scoring insane luxury hotels,

Ross Borden (33:47):

Press trips and camp trips

Elona Karafin (33:50):

And stuff. It felt surreal. And I guess the value of those trips surpassed probably what I was making. But I was getting paid well in finance for the position that I was in and straight out of college. And it took me probably four years to get back to that level. But if you take into account all the freedom that I had and the types of trips that I was doing, I was really focused on luxury travel. I still am, but now it’s more balanced. And I’ve only started making six figure years, like three years ago. So it’s been a really long journey. And now it’s been more consistent because I try to focus more on long-term deals. So like an ambassadorship program, for example, where I know that I will be getting paid for six months or a year rather than a one-off campaign with a brand that’s willing to pay five figures, but then I’m never going to hear from them again. They’re not going to get any ROI because it’s just a one-off campaign. There’s no trust and there’s no loyalty. But yeah, now I would say I work with way less brands, but I’m trying to sign either high five figure or six figure deals with these brands and then focus the rest of my time on Japan, like local and the consulting and everything else. But yeah, it took a while.

Ross Borden (35:20):

You guys jumping back to Japan, like a local, where are you guys taking that? Why are you building an app and what is the app going to be? I would imagine there’s a paid tier or why is that the product you’re deciding to develop?

Elona Karafin (35:34):

Number one, the app doesn’t exist right now as I imagine it, which is actually surprising that there aren’t many Japan apps available. And the ones that are super outdated, mostly Tokyo focused. So I didn’t love the PDF format of the guide just because easy to reproduce, very difficult to update, actually it’s impossible to update and have it automatically update for everyone. So we kind of thought what would be the next best thing? And app was just what came to mind. So we’re working with a couple of developers to have a very comprehensive Japan app. So locations in Japan, tried and tested restaurants, a booking platform for hotels and hopefully in the future like B2B side, where hotels that trust us give us either discounted rates or some sort of benefits that our customers would get booking through the app. And this doesn’t only apply to hotels. It could be for restaurants, it could be for activities. Having a half Japanese or Japanese partner who speaks the language makes it a little bit easier.

Ross Borden (36:49):

Massive. Yeah,

Elona Karafin (36:50):

I

Ross Borden (36:50):

Can imagine that would be tough. It’s a big cultural

Elona Karafin (36:52):

Barrier do about

Ross Borden (36:53):

That,

Elona Karafin (36:53):

Especially for the business side of things. Even speaking to companies there, you really have to understand the cultural norms to break into the business barrier of things.

Ross Borden (37:05):

Totally. And even being a traveler, I think there’s a need for that app because it’s a place where even people who are well traveled can feel like such an outsider if they don’t speak Japanese or if they don’t, they’re not culturally fluent. So it’s definitely, you can kick around Paris or New York and figure it out, but I think it’s a lot less easily done in Japan.

Elona Karafin (37:28):

And Japan is overwhelming as well, even for well-traveled people, just the plethora of restaurants that they have and activities and things to see around the country. We’re trying to simplify that.

Ross Borden (37:40):

Yeah, cool. I want to jump to what I think was a brand partnership. Maybe it was a sort of a press trip, but you did a really interesting trip where you flew to Antarctica on a plane from Cape Town, and I love that in the opening of that video you show, you’re like, most people go from Terra Dego down to Antarctica, and you flew from, was it Cape Town?

Elona Karafin (38:04):

Cape Town, yeah.

Ross Borden (38:06):

Yeah. So I didn’t actually know that that flight existed, and I think most people don’t realize how geographically close that all ice landing strip is from the tip of Africa. So tell us about how that whole thing happened and then I want to hear about the trip itself. It looked incredible and I’ve personally never been there, so I want to go.

Elona Karafin (38:29):

Yeah. So White Desert is arguably the most exclusive and unique travel experience that exists in the world. Exclusive remote luxury Antarctica. They were the first, and they’re one of two companies that do travel to Antarctica by plane and the hospitality aspect where you could actually stay and live in Antarctica for a week in a eco luxury camp. There’s two of ’em. So yeah, we flew out a couple of weeks ago from Cape Town and spent the week in one of their camps shooting content and creating more of a social media marketing campaign for them. It was the most incredible travel experience I’ve ever had, I think to date.

Ross Borden (39:20):

Really?

Elona Karafin (39:20):

Yeah,

Ross Borden (39:20):

It’s saying a lot.

Elona Karafin (39:22):

It’s so exclusive and intimate and remote, but also the operational side of what white desert does. I met the CEO Patrick afterwards, and this guy’s just a visionary. He just said, I want to have a luxury hotel in Antarctica. I am going to abide by all the laws of the Antarctic Treaty. It’s going to be fully sustainable, carbon neutral. I’m going to bring scientists to the continent, and I’m also going to bring a couple of really adventurous guests. It’s only 12 people per camp. So there’s 20 people that come in 200 per season, about 200 or 250 per season. That’s it.

Ross Borden (40:05):

Wow. It must be expensive trip then.

Elona Karafin (40:07):

It’s an expensive trip. It’s an expensive trip. They also go to South Pole. We didn’t go to South Pole on ours, but once you see the operations of what it takes to have a private runway, a private airport in Antarctica, a runway that’s on ice, that takes 25 people a week to groom, and then they have to groom it 24 hours before every flight for a private jet to land on that runway, an A three 40, and then for the camps to have a private chef gourmet food.

Ross Borden (40:41):

Wow, that sounds incredible. Well, white desert, if you’re listening, Alona should get another free trip or a referral. That was a pretty good ad for the trip and very special trip for you. Did you get engaged on this trip?

Elona Karafin (40:55):

I got engaged on this trip, but

Ross Borden (40:57):

Congratulations. It is very

Elona Karafin (40:59):

Exciting engagement. It was the best experience that I’ve ever had, but yes, I’m engaged to my

Ross Borden (41:04):

Friend. Did know. Was it a total surprise, your partner surprise you with

Elona Karafin (41:08):

That? It was a surprise. It was a surprise. Well done. I was hopeful. I mean, I knew that it was coming at some point, but I just didn’t think it was going to be on this trip. No.

Ross Borden (41:18):

Yeah, that’s cool. I mean, marriage will be a piece of cake for you guys. We’ve traveled all over the world together. That’s the ultimate test, I hope so. If you can get along right, I do ask everyone this question, who comes on the pod? Because I think it’s a hard question, and it’s almost like the more well traveled you are, the harder the question gets. So here it is. If your passport only worked in three countries for the rest of your life, including the us, and you had to choose three countries to live in and you could go nowhere else the rest of your life, what would the three countries be?

Elona Karafin (41:52):

Including the us?

Ross Borden (41:53):

Correct.

Elona Karafin (41:54):

So that’s one of three. So I have to pick two more.

Ross Borden (41:57):

Well, some people don’t even pick the us, but yeah, if you’re going to choose the us, it’s got to be one of the three.

Elona Karafin (42:03):

Okay, I see. Definitely Japan. Definitely Japan.

Ross Borden (42:10):

Good choice. Yep. Same here.

Elona Karafin (42:13):

I’m not very well traveled in the US and I’m a bit disappointed about that. So I would actually have to say I’m going to keep the US as well. So US and Japan.

Ross Borden (42:28):

One more left.

Elona Karafin (42:30):

I have to think. It’s hard to say because I haven’t seen so many countries, so there might be something out there that I’m still like I’d be between probably Iraq and Afghanistan, I think.

Ross Borden (42:44):

Wow. Okay. Love it. So let’s say it’s Afghanistan, because that leads me into my next question. Another one of your videos that I really loved was that you said people would always ask you, I guess a similar question to where you’d live if you had a top three, but they just say, what’s your favorite country you’ve ever been to? And you dedicated an entire video to the fact that that answer is now Afghanistan. Tell us about why that is, and tell us about your experience or experiences in Afghanistan.

Elona Karafin (43:16):

The first answer will probably sound a little bit selfish, but in Afghanistan I say that I felt a really wide spectrum of emotion, and I think a big part of the human experience is the ability to feel emotion. And in Afghanistan there’s guilt, especially American guilt. There’s sadness, there’s disappointment, there’s also happiness. There’s empathy. There’s so many different things that you could feel in just one day of having human connection. So maybe that’s a little bit selfish, but to me, that’s the most intellectually stimulating part of travel for me, which is important. Very kind people. I know that I keep coming back to this, but 90 or 95% of the country lives on the poverty line. And these are people that will invite you to their homes, American, not American, no matter who you are, they invite you, they feed you. They want to tell you stories about their family and their kids and what makes them happy. And you start to realize that most people feel happy from the same things all over the world.

Ross Borden (44:31):

Same

Elona Karafin (44:31):

Things that make me happy. Make them happy too.

Ross Borden (44:33):

Totally.

Elona Karafin (44:35):

It’s a beautiful country with so much history, so much culture, so many traditions, and we haven’t even covered maybe 30% of it, so there’s so much more that’s left to see. We have a school in Afghanistan, so that’s very important to me. I’d love to spend more time there expanding it. I really just want to see the country change, and that’s why I would keep coming back there to see it become a better place, hopefully in my lifetime.

Ross Borden (45:04):

Nice. And for those who want to follow you on every platform, can you just say where we can find you on Instagram, TikTok, and anywhere else? Any other platforms you guys are on or you’re on?

Elona Karafin (45:14):

Yes. On Instagram, I’m at Alona, E-L-O-N-A, and on every other platform I’m at Alona. Carin, K-A-R-A-F-I-N,

Ross Borden (45:24):

Alona. So great to meet you. Congrats on everything, and thank you for coming on the show.

Elona Karafin (45:29):

Thank you for having me, Ross. Appreciate it.

Ross Borden (45:34):

Creator, the podcast is produced by Matador Network. We are a leading global travel publisher focused on travel and adventure. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe. Every week I interview a new top creator. New episodes are released every Tuesday on YouTube, apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere podcasts are found. Thanks for listening.